492-Intuitive Eating in a GLP-1 Era with Elyse Resch, Co-Creator of Intuitive Eating

Can you practice intuitive eating while taking a GLP-1 for weight loss?

According to Elyse Resch, registered dietitian and co-creator of Intuitive Eating, GLP-1 medications used for intentional weight loss are the antithesis of intuitive eating. Intuitive eating is a dynamic interplay of instinct, emotion, and thought. It relies on internal signals like hunger, fullness, and satisfaction. At the higher doses prescribed for weight loss, GLP-1s suppress hunger and appetite, which removes the instinctual signals intuitive eating is built on. Many people also report reduced pleasure, not only in food but in other parts of life.

This is different from GLP-1 use for medical conditions such as type 2 diabetes, typically at lower doses. Resch notes that she supports clients who are on these medications. She helps them nourish themselves as well as they can within the restriction the drug creates, and she prepares them for the likelihood that they will stop taking it because of side effects, cost, access, or simply not feeling well.

When someone stops a GLP-1, hunger and fullness signals are not accurate right away. The survival part of the brain needs time to sense that the body is nourished. Resch describes intense hunger and intense disconnection from the body during this period. That’s why the plan of losing weight on the drug while learning intuitive eating at the same time rarely holds. Intuitive eating often has to be relearned once the medication ends.

Before starting a GLP-1 for weight loss, people deserve informed consent, meaning the full picture of benefits, risks, and what happens after stopping. A free informed consent resource is available at sizeinclusivemedicine.org/glp1. Resch and Stephanie Dodier discuss this in depth on episode 492 of the It’s Beyond The Food podcast.

Transcript

[00:00:03] Stephanie: Welcome to It’s Beyond the Food podcast, my sister. I’m Stephanie Dodier, I’m your host, and today I have a very special guest for you, Elyse Resch. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:14] Elyse: Thank you so much for inviting me. I’m happy to be here.

[00:00:17] Stephanie: I’m excited to have you. It’s an honor.

[00:00:19] Stephanie: Elyse is a, uh, dietician and also the author of the Intuitive Eating book, among six other books that you’ve co-author. Yeah. When I was doing the research, I’m like, wow. And this is my first question, 44 years- Yeah … of experience- Yeah … in intuitive eating, eating disorder, disordered eating. 44 years.

[00:00:46] Elyse: And that’s- That’s amazing

[00:00:47] Elyse: my second career. It’s my second career. I was an elementary school teacher when I got out of college.

[00:00:52] Stephanie: Really? Yeah.

[00:00:54] Elyse: I- I did not know that … I went back to graduate school in my 30s and, uh, started my career late 30s, so yeah.

[00:01:03] Stephanie: Wow. Long time. Congratulations.

[00:01:05] Elyse: Thank you.

[00:01:07] Stephanie: So how did you… So you got from teaching to nutrition in general.

[00:01:12] Elyse: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:01:13] Stephanie: How did you get to intuitive eating and writing a book?

[00:01:18] Elyse: So many, many years ago, and I’m very open about this, I had my own eating disorder, my own diet, starve, binge, you know, the whole, the whole routine. And, um, I’m grateful for it, frankly, because it led me ultimately to going back to graduate school, to working with people to help free them from the same, um, difficult yet also, um, meaningful time because it helped me.

[00:01:46] Elyse: I had no other way to cope with what was going on in my life at that moment. So, um, but of course, healing from it opens up your life to so many other things. So how did I get there? Well, um, in my early days of practice, actually before my practice, in my traineeship when I was training to be a registered dietician, um, I worked at a clinic affiliated with Children’s Hospital Los Angeles and the university, and it was called University Affiliated Program, uh, Center for Child Development and Developmental Disabilities.

[00:02:17] Elyse: And I just thought my whole career was going to be working with families with kids with developmental disabilities. You know, you plan things and things change. I didn’t get that many referrals for that, and I got referrals from doctors, lots of different medical people who would send their patients to me asking me, that’s kind of a veil, they’d asking me to, you know, help them lower their cholesterol and their blood sugar, their blood pressure, but help them lose weight.

[00:02:44] Elyse: And it just didn’t, it didn’t strike me, but I didn’t know what to do. I had been in graduate school back in the ’70s, and we were not, you know, obviously taught anything about, um, trusting your own body. We were not t- taught that at all. We were taught to give people meal plans, and if they were thinner, they were gonna be healthier.

[00:03:04] Elyse: And it’s heartbreaking to know that that was what the training was. Fortunately now, and I supervise a lot of students, they are learning about intuitive eating and eating disorders. In any case, it just didn’t feel right to me. I gave people meal plans because that’s what I was taught. And, uh, there was a defining moment when I had a young woman who, um, gave her her meal plan, and the week after that she came back and she was very sad and she said, “I just can’t do it.

[00:03:32] Elyse: I’ve been binging all week.” And I thought, ‘I don’t know what to do with this. I don’t know how to handle this.’ And it was kind of that moment of something’s got to change. And I think synchronicity, it was the same time that there was some literature coming out about anti-diet, about giving people permission to eat what they wanted, but it was more psychologically oriented.

[00:03:53] Elyse: Not that I’m not very psychologically oriented, but it wasn’t coming from dieticians, it wasn’t coming from, um- I guess, food people. And, um, and I was reading it and I thought, “Wow, this is powerful, the idea that depriving someone is ultimately going to lead them to feel shame and guilt and be out of control for some people.”

[00:04:16] Elyse: And I thought, “Okay, this is, this, something has to change.” So I started writing a book. I started putting chapters on my computer. I was going to call my book The Tao of Eating, T-A-O, which is Daoism. Um-

[00:04:30] Stephanie: Yeah, Daoism. Yeah, me too.

[00:04:31] Elyse: And that came from, um, my son at the time had read a book called The Tao of Pooh, and he said, “Mom, you’ve got to read this book.”

[00:04:39] Elyse: I read the book, and it was… I don’t know if you’ve heard of Winnie-the-Pooh. Do you know who Winnie- Yes, I do. Okay. Yeah. Well, it was a, a story about how Winnie and his pal Eeyore were going to take this race, and Eeyore was very directed. He was gonna run as fast as he could, and Winnie was, like, meandering about, looking at the flowers, looking at the sky.

[00:05:01] Elyse: You know, very happy. And Eeyore hits this big rock and falls, and Winnie just takes his time, and Winnie wins the race. And I thought, “Wow, this is profound. This is about process. It’s not about linear, uh, control. It’s about process.” So that’s why I was gonna call it The Tao of Pooh. But it didn’t end up happening that way.

[00:05:21] Elyse: Um, interestingly, my co-author was, um, working. I had some extra space in my office, and she was working once a week there because she lived an hour away and came up to see a client. And she and I one day were, saw each other in the hall, and she looked kind of, I don’t know, disturbed about something. I said, “What’s the matter?”

[00:05:40] Elyse: And she said, “I’m trying to write this book with a s- uh, uh, I’m trying to write a book with a psychologist, and she is a terrible writer.” And I had this moment of being, this is Virginia Woolf, uh, Virgi- the- Mm-hmm … who talked about moments of being where something just hits you. You know, a light bulb goes off.

[00:05:58] Elyse: And I thought, “Well, I knew I was a good writer. I was an English minor in college, and I knew I was very interested in psychology.” I’d had years of therapy by that time. I said, “I’ll write the book with you.” And I thought, “What a great collaboration.” And it has been great for 30 years. We wrote the first book, uh, signed the contract in 1993, and it came out in 1995, 30, 31 years ago now.

[00:06:22] Elyse: And Evelyn is a genius in terms of research. Um, we h- now have over 350 studies validating intuitive eating as a, you know, positive, um, process to increase mental and physical health. In any case, we collaborated, and now we’re about to, um, release the fifth edition next year. So that’s how it all kind of began, and it changed my life.

[00:06:46] Elyse: I was not happy with the work I was doing, and it just opened up and blossomed into such beautiful work, and I’m so grateful for it.

[00:06:54] Stephanie: And we are grateful. And it’s just the… I believe in the universe. This is a synchronicity of putting you guys in the same office.

[00:07:02] Elyse: Right. Yeah.

[00:07:03] Stephanie: There was a purpose for it, and you’ve changed- Exactly

[00:07:05] Stephanie: probably millions of people’s lives, so Thank you

[00:07:09] Elyse: Oh, there’ve been, like, uh, lots of, over 700,000 books have been- Oh, yeah … sold, and it’s going to be translated next year and, uh, by next year into 19 different languages. Next year Arabic is coming out, so it’s, it’s reaching people all over the world, and it’s, it’s amazing.

[00:07:26] Elyse: Yeah.

[00:07:27] Stephanie: Yeah. So I wanna, we, we went back-

[00:07:29] Elyse: Yeah …

[00:07:30] Stephanie: but I wanna move into the now- Uh-huh … and into pot- potentially the future, but you’re about to write the fifth edition. That’s one thing I wanted to share with people. And there’s a thing in today’s time, so we are in September of 2026, called GLP or the new weight loss-

[00:07:50] Elyse: Mm

[00:07:51] Stephanie: method, drug, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do you think about intuitive eating? What do you see in your practice, intuitive eating in a GLP-1 era? And I know it’s a wide question.

[00:08:03] Elyse: Yes, it is.

[00:08:03] Stephanie: But let’s, let’s start pulling it apart.

[00:08:06] Elyse: Well, let me just first say, my biggest problem with GLP-1s is people are not getting informed consent.

[00:08:12] Elyse: They’re being prescribed drugs and not told the whole picture, and this is not your question right now, but I can- Yeah … give you my thoughts about the whole picture of it. Um, intuitive eating is about trusting your inner wisdom. It’s a dynamic interplay of instinct, emotion, and thought. So we have instincts for hunger and fullness and satisfaction, what we like, what we don’t like.

[00:08:33] Elyse: We have our emotions, our emotional brain, that is, can affect our, um, appetite some of the time. And we have the rational part of the brain, the neocortex, that can help us make the best decisions. The GLP-1s take us completely out of that because they, um, they take away hunger. They take away appetite. Um, and I have many feelings and understandings about why people do seek them.

[00:09:01] Elyse: I have a lot of compassion. I believe in body autonomy, and I don’t think people are getting a fair deal. So, um, so how does that work with intuitive eating? Uh, I have not had any of my clients want to go on these drugs for weight loss. I have had a couple of clients on them for, uh, control their diabetes.

[00:09:23] Elyse: Now, we have to all remember that this, these drugs have been around for well over 20 years and studied for that time in very small doses, and they’re very effective for a lot of people. Um, and the doses that are being given out for people wanting to lose weight, uh, i- it’s a human experiment that’s going on right now.

[00:09:45] Elyse: So, um, and by the way, I just sidebar, one of my, one of my wonderful clients who is, had been on the drug for two years, um, for her diabetes and was controlling it well, and she happens to be in the medical world- One day she just had a complete stoppage, it’s called ileus, where her whole GI tract stopped.

[00:10:04] Elyse: And because she knows, knew about the body- Yeah … she knew what was happening, and immediately got off of it. And, and this w- and she was on a tiny dose. So I, I, you know, in terms of intuitive eating, back to your question, it’s the antithesis of intuitive eating. To d- to give you a drug that is going to not allow you to trust your body, to…

[00:10:26] Elyse: that’s gonna st- starve you, in large doses- Mm … we’re talking about right now.

[00:10:31] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Elyse: So, um.

[00:10:32] Stephanie: I, I wanna pause and unpack a lot of this. So number one, in the show note I’m gonna attach an informed consent from the- Yeah … Association of Weight Inclusive Student. Yes. Yes. So anybody listening to this is like- Wonderful

[00:10:45] Stephanie: ‘What is informed consent?’ Mm-hmm. It’s free. Download the PDF. Yes. And you’ll know what informed consent specifically around GLP-1 is. Yes,

[00:10:54] Elyse: yes.

[00:10:54] Stephanie: That would be one thing. And when we talk about… So I did a whole series on, called Beyond GLP-1, where I interviewed different, uh, experts on different topic of GLP-1. Mm.

[00:11:05] Stephanie: And one of the thing we came to the conclusion with is that we, there’s medical use for GLP-1, like for diabetes. And in some case right now we’re seeing a lot of PCOS benefit in small doses.

[00:11:17] Elyse: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:18] Stephanie: What we’re talking here is GLP-1 for intentional weight loss.

[00:11:23] Elyse: Correct. Correct.

[00:11:25] Stephanie: And the dose for that is seven to nine times higher than medical purposes of GLP-1.

[00:11:32] Elyse: Yes. Yes.

[00:11:33] Stephanie: And that’s what’s impacting the ability to feel the hunger. That cuts off the reward center into the brain. So it is not conducive to being an intuitive eater. Is that what you’re saying?

[00:11:45] Elyse: Right. Exactly. It is not conducive. And, uh, as you said that, I was so happy, Stephanie, that you said it cuts off the, uh, pleasure center or the…

[00:11:56] Elyse: I mean, what we’re finding is people not only are not getting pleasure in eating, which is very sad, they’re not getting pleasure in many other parts of life that they used to. So it’s not gonna- going to just affect hunger and fullness, it’s going to affect all these other things, and how sad is that? I saw an interview with the man who had invented them, and he was- Yeah

[00:12:19] Elyse: talking with a, a another, uh, scientist, and he said, “You know…” He and the two of them were sitting and eating a delicious-looking dessert, and he said, “I’m not so sure this is a good idea.” He said, “Because people- Hmm … people are not getting the pleasure of eating that they used to.” And I was like, wow, this is profound.

[00:12:38] Stephanie: So, let’s, so let’s go there, because one other topic I wanted to talk with you is food addiction. Right? Yeah. Food addiction- No such thing … reward center. Like- Yeah … what are your thoughts on the, on the, an, an, an expert in this field? Is there such a thing as food addiction?

[00:12:52] Elyse: No. No, and ironically, my co-author and I are going to be on a panel with two people who do believe in it, and we do not believe in it.

[00:13:00] Elyse: It’s going, in November, it’s going to be sort of interesting. Where’s that panel, by the way? Uh, it’s through a, uh, practice group through the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. Okay. I don’t know how, you know, available it’s going to be, but perhaps w- afterwards it will be. Yes. So here’s the thing. All these, um, supposed studies that prove that there is food addiction, especially the Yale, um, there’s a Yale study on food.

[00:13:23] Elyse: Yes, Yale. What they neglect to do is look at the history of the person in terms of deprivation, in terms of whether they have had free access to all foods, whatever, whatever it is that they like to eat. And so, and they don’t look at hunger, how, how starved has that person been. So you put someone into a room, and you give them access to what’s considered a no-no, you know, kind of food, and they can’t stop eating, and then they say, “Well, this proves-” food addiction.

[00:13:54] Elyse: No, it does not. Take a group of people who have gone through the intuitive eating process, who have made peace with all foods, that see all foods as emotionally equivalent, and you give them foods that they l- have on, you know, a regular basis, and they eat the amount that their bodies need and that their satisfaction gives them.

[00:14:13] Elyse: So, um, the, the idea of it lighting up, you know, the dopamine levels in the brain, well, guess what? So does, um, music, so does sex, so does- Yeah … anything beautiful, a little baby laughing, giggling. And so to say that because it triggers, you know, this pleasure center of the brain, it must be a addiction. So I am 100% against that, uh, concept.

[00:14:38] Elyse: I don’t believe it exists. And, and, and something really interesting, too. With drug addictions, when people are heavily addicted and they’re taken off a drug, they go through, through withdrawal symptoms. They have, you know, physical and, uh, mental, uh, experiences afterwards. I had a cl- a client many years ago who was restricting simple carbohydrates, sugars, that type of thing, and, um, we have some place called Disneyland, I’m sure you’ve heard of it- Yes

[00:15:05] Elyse: in California. And she would allow herself every month or two to go to Disneyland and eat some coconut cake that they had there, and she would eat it. She would get seven or eight different servings a day and feel completely addicted to it, quote, unquote. And then, you know, go on for a month or two and not have anything like that.

[00:15:24] Elyse: So we started out by putting in other carbohydrate foods as well. You know, putting in grains, cereal, pasta, all those things, and working on the intuitive eating concept that everything is legal. A couple months later, she went to Disneyland. She went and had one piece of, you know, coconut cake that was delicious.

[00:15:44] Elyse: So there is not a withdrawal symptom if you take away sugar, but you, and at the same time, nourish the body and give the body enough carbohydrates. And the brain. The brain can only operate on carbohydrate, by the way.

[00:15:59] Stephanie: So. So why, so on your personal opinion, why do you think that as a society, we- So heavily focused on food addiction and sugar addiction.

[00:16:13] Stephanie: How is it s- it, it’s serving the narrative of diet culture?

[00:16:16] Elyse: Well, it’s the, you know, it’s the, uh, quote-unquote wellness community. Yeah. Really a veil, a mask for thinness. Now, I am a very strong feminist. One of my idols, Gloria Steinem, just recently- Yes … died last week, which is so sad. Actually, Dolly Parton also.

[00:16:33] Elyse: Yeah. Wonderful person. And so, um, back in the ’70s when the second wave of feminism was quite, you know, strong, what was happening was, I think, uh, a sense of fear in the patriarchy that w- women now were going to be able to support themselves, perhaps have babies by themselves, maybe wouldn’t need to have to be with a man.

[00:17:00] Elyse: And I think it doesn’t just start there. It goes way back to racism and way back to the, to 1600s and all of that. I think it’s a control mechanism. I think the idea of keeping people as thin as they can be means we can control them in two ways. First of all, s- fragile bodies by being malnourished, um, and mind being filled up with thoughts of not being good enough unless they’re small enough, and this keeps, um…

[00:17:30] Elyse: And it’s n- it’s all genders, of course, but I think it started with, you know, targeting women. When I was quite young, I couldn’t get my own credit card. All credit cards were not given to, to women back in the s- in the, um, ’60s. So I think part of it is, um, this concept of dominance and control and, um, you know, this whole new trad wife trend.

[00:17:56] Elyse: I don’t know if you’ve heard about that. Oh, yeah. You know. And, um, and unfortunately, Hollywood. You know, I live in California, and there’s been such a, a, a sad, sad picture of malnourished people, especially women. Some men, but especially women. Um, it’s a trend now, but it will go away eventually.

[00:18:18] Stephanie: Yeah, it’s-

[00:18:19] Elyse: It’ll probably come back again too.

[00:18:20] Stephanie: It, it’s narrative food addiction, sugar addiction that are invented and put forward- Yeah … as a mechanism of control.

[00:18:29] Elyse: Of control. And, and the irony is it only leads to being out of control for most people when… Look, we live in a scary world in so many ways. We cannot control things. We can manage our lives as best as we can, but we certainly cannot control our bodies by depriving our bodies.

[00:18:48] Elyse: We can manage our bodies, take the best care of them, can make sure that we’re protecting our bones and our muscles and our brains and all of that, but we can’t control things. And so this concept of weight loss is, I mean, scientifically looking at the research, it just, it’s not sustainable. Any form of intentional weight loss, uh, leads to weight cycling.

[00:19:11] Elyse: People gain the weight back and more. In fact, some of the studies on the GLP-1s, they’re showing that people are gaining back the weight even while on the stu- while taking the drug. So, um, yeah.

[00:19:24] Stephanie: Well, it’s what, the diet culture, the dieting has 60 years or so of history, and we still haven’t found the way.

[00:19:32] Stephanie: And we’ve tried, we as a collective have tried many drugs, many method, and we s- we still cannot get to a place where we can pursue intentional weight loss effectively. Well, it- It works until it doesn’t.

[00:19:46] Elyse: Yeah, and here’s the thing. We have this, I was talking about the instinctual part of the brain. Yeah. We have the instinct, emotion, and thought.

[00:19:49] Elyse: The instinctual part of

[00:19:53] Elyse: the brain doesn’t have thoughts and feelings. It has the, the survival mechanism. That part of the brain is geared to keeping us alive. So when it registers that we’re in starvation, what it’s going to do, and weight, you know, weight loss and starvation, it’s gonna send out every message to try to get that weight back on and more to protect the person from dying.

[00:20:17] Elyse: And it’s not thinking that. It’s not the thinking part of the brain. It’s that instinctual part. So it’s not sustainable, and it’s been shown not to be sustainable, and that’s why people, you know, believe that on this drug they have to going to ha- going to have to be on it for life, which, whew, what’s that going to do to them?

[00:20:35] Elyse: And I know this show is not about

[00:20:36] Stephanie: all the- We don’t know, and I think that’s part of the problem. Right. We do not know long term on this dosage of what that will do to people’s physical body, emotional, and-

[00:20:48] Elyse: Well, you know- … mental … but I think we already know some things. We know that there’s a g- large loss of muscle when there is significant weight loss.

[00:20:56] Elyse: Mm. I think it’s about 40% is in muscle. So we already know that. So if you d- project that over a lifetime and you continue to take a drug- Yeah,

[00:21:05] Stephanie: true …

[00:21:05] Elyse: that if it continues to cause weight loss, it’s going to continue to cause muscle damage. And bone damage. I mean, we’re not supporting bones either. They need nutrition to stay strong.

[00:21:17] Elyse: So I think we know some things now. You’re correct. We don’t know what it’s gonna be like later. And there, there are indications of, um, there are a lot of people having gallbladders removed, having gallbladder problems. Yeah. Pancreatitis, gastritis. You probably have talked about this on your show.

[00:21:32] Stephanie: Well, you know what’s interesting is I interviewed a weight neutral doctor, Canadian doctor, who’s also an emergency care doctor.

[00:21:41] Elyse: Mm.

[00:21:41] Stephanie: And she noted a severe increase of stomach issue, like digestive issue, that come into the ER. Mm. And it’s mostly caused by GLP-1, just like your patient who’s-

[00:21:53] Elyse: Yeah …

[00:21:54] Stephanie: had a sudden paralysis. And she was

[00:21:56] Elyse: only on a small amount of it too. Yeah. So you can imagine if they’re on these highest dosage, dosages.

[00:22:02] Elyse: And I understand now they’re pr- trying to promote giving it to children six to 12 years old.

[00:22:07] Stephanie: Yeah, I saw that a couple weeks ago.

[00:22:09] Elyse: It’s heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.

[00:22:10] Stephanie: And- A- and I wanna talk about, because you wrote the book for teenager, I wanna talk about that. Yes. Yeah. But I wanna stay in the fifth edition of the book.

[00:22:17] Stephanie: Okay. And GLP-1 because w- what will bring, what will be brought forward in the fifth edition of the book? Mm-hmm. Like, what will be updated, and is it, is it in regard to what’s happening with GLP-1? I-

[00:22:30] Elyse: Well, we’re, there’s a whole, yes, we refer to it a number of times. We were, w- Yeah … it’s very strong in social justice issues.

[00:22:37] Elyse: Um, the research, the newest research is being presented in it. Uh, there’s rewriting of chapters. There’s, um- just a lot about the idea that people are being led down this path- Mm-hmm … and they don’t know what, where it’s going to go to. In, in every way, with the GLP-1s and in all of the diets out there, the intermittent fasting, the keto diets.

[00:23:05] Elyse: What is this doing to people? So yes, there’s a, there’s a lot of that. Every time this book has been updated, there are things added, there are things, a few things taken out. There’s, there’s updating, there’s having a, you know, what was Maya Angelou’s, um… I can never remember the full quote but, you know, essentially Be kind to ourselves for what we didn’t know, but do better- Yeah

[00:23:28] Elyse: do better. So, you know, it’s, it’s a, a very well-edited, let me say, a year of d- three times a week meetings of, between my coauthor and me to, uh, refine the book, to update it, to give more information, to add things. So.

[00:23:48] Stephanie: So your stance, both of you- Mm-hmm … you and Evelyn, the other author, for people. Mm-hmm. Like, there’s a few…

[00:23:54] Stephanie: By the way, there’s, if you go up the feed of the podcast, there’s two interview with Evelyn in the last eight years, so you can find them on the f- podcast feed. Um, so the stance of you as a creator of the method is that GLP-1 for intentional weight loss and intuitive eating cannot be combined. Is that-

[00:24:13] Elyse: Not n- Is that- It c- it, it, it…

[00:24:15] Elyse: Well, let me say this. If someone comes to my office and, uh, is on this drug, I will help support them in taking a look at how they’re feeling and nourishing themselves the best they can within the restriction of what they’re, what they’re getting, and I, I will never say, “No, I won’t talk to you.” I, I wanna help them.

[00:24:33] Elyse: And I also know that at some point they’re going to f- get off of this drug. Right. At some point it’s likely it’s either gonna cause a medical problem, or it won’t be available, or it’ll be too expensive, or they just won’t feel well on it. And so I wanna support them in that. Interestingly, as you’re asking me about this, um, I have an app coming out soon, and probably-

[00:24:55] Stephanie: Oh, yeah

[00:24:55] Elyse: will be available in about a month, I hope. It’s, again, two and a half years of working on this app. It’s an intuitive eating app. It’s called Intué. And m- I have a, a co-creator, someone from the business world, tech world with me, ’cause I, I’m not any good in technology uh, growing up many, many, you know, decades ago.

[00:25:14] Elyse: Uh, in any case, we’ve been talking about ultimately perhaps going to insurance companies and suggesting to them that if they’re going to prescribe these drugs, they should also prescribe this intuitive, an intuitive eating app so that they have something to land on when the drug inevitably is probably not gonna be a part of their lives.

[00:25:35] Elyse: Interesting, huh? So-

[00:25:37] Stephanie: Yeah. So we’ll put the link. Is, is it launched, the app yet?

[00:25:40] Elyse: No, it’s going to… No, it’s, uh, there is a website. It’s, um- Okay … intué.app, at www.intué.app. Good. You can get notifications for it. And we’re in the very last testing stages, so hoping to launch it in October.

[00:25:55] Stephanie: So the idea of the app is to walk people through the process of becoming- Through the-

[00:26:00] Stephanie: an intuitive eater, I guess.

[00:26:01] Elyse: Exactly. Exactly. And to help them understand, uh, what, um, you know, damage has been done to them by diet culture, and to move them along to a place where they can have peace and freedom with their eating. So it’s a companion, in a sense. It’s also, there are a lot of people who don’t like to read, and don’t- Yes

[00:26:19] Elyse: even like to listen to audiobooks. And our younger generation tend to be, I say they’re Velcroed to their telephones. So having something, you know, in their pocket that they can go to and have support. And eventually, you know, there are many, there are going to be many iterations of it, but eventually we’ll connect them with certified intuitive eating counselors so that, uh, they can, if they are able to, you know, um, get that support, they will.

[00:26:44] Elyse: I

[00:26:44] Stephanie: was gonna say, it’s a tool of accessibility, right? Yeah. In the world of social justice, an app replace a professional like us that is more expensive- Exactly … and not accessible to all.

[00:26:54] Elyse: Yeah, exactly. So, um, I’m hoping it’ll extend this whole process, you know, to as many people as possible.

[00:27:03] Stephanie: Yeah. We’ll come back to GLP-1, because I have another question I wanna put to you.

[00:27:07] Stephanie: Okay. The way that I’m thinking about this, and the way I’ve been talking about intuitive eating and GLP-1 is if people- wanna learn to become an intuitive eater because there’s a, a group, a segment of people like, “I’m just gonna take GLP-1 to lose the weight, and then I’m gonna learn intuitive eating at the same time- Mm-hmm

[00:27:25] Stephanie: so then I’ll be able to maintain the- Mm-hmm … loss of weight.” Mm-hmm. My comeback or my reply to that is you will have to relearn intuitive eating once you leave- Right … the drug because every senses in you will change, and you will have to reacquaint yourself with that. I’d love to hear your

[00:27:42] Elyse: thoughts. Yes, and it will take a long time because what’s going to happen is once, once someone withdraws from the drug, no longer this particular drug- Mm-hmm

[00:27:49] Elyse: um, they’re gonna going to go through a process where their hunger and fullness signals are n- not accurate yet. It’s going to take time for the survival part of the brain to sense that the person’s nourished and be able to, you know, connect a person with hunger and fullness. So n- by the way, and hunger and fullness are not the only principles of intuitive eating, and there’s a lot of- Misconception

[00:28:13] Elyse: misconception out there. There’s eight other principles. But in any case, it’s going to… You can’t just learn how to be an intuitive eater when you’re not getting appropriate signals, and when you stop the drug, there’s gonna be a reversal. There’s gonna be intense hunger, um, and dis- intense disconnection from the body, so.

[00:28:32] Stephanie: And that’s, by the way, that’s how the weight regain happened with this intense bounce back or pendulum swing, as we like to say in our world. That’s how the weight comes back because of that intensity of signal. And more. Yeah.

[00:28:45] Elyse: That’s what the, the weight, weight cycling is about. There is inevitably going to be more because the metabolism is slowed down during, you know, starvation.

[00:28:54] Elyse: And so that part of the brain is going to, um, try to keep the person alive by s- you know, not needing as many calories just to stay alive. But then as soon as you’re off the drug, whoof, you know, the, the, the need to replenish is going to be strong. Yeah. Plus, there’s gonna be muscle loss, and muscle is your most a- metabolically active tissue in the body.

[00:29:16] Elyse: So you have that going, and there’s, uh, often an increase in, uh, hunger hormones, ghrelin, a decrease in leptin, which is the fullness hormone. All kinds of mechanisms. Remember, that part of the brain just wants to keep us alive, and this drug is not leading toward keeping people alive.

[00:29:35] Stephanie: I wanna shift to another segment.

[00:29:37] Stephanie: I wanna talk about how to prevent this whole conundrum. Mm-hmm. And I know you wrote the book on int- a workbook on intuitive eating in teens. Mm-hmm. Because that’s really the solution. Like, if we want to prevent that- Yes … for generation to come- Yes … we need to start when children are young.

[00:29:53] Elyse: Yes.

[00:29:54] Stephanie: To course-correct.

[00:29:55] Stephanie: So I’d love to get your thoughts on teens, intuitive eating, and how do we go about preventing this?

[00:30:02] Elyse: Sure. Sure. Um, I, I wanna start with in the fifth edition of Intuitive Eating, I, I, well, there’s been a chapter that I wrote on raising kids and teens as intuitive eaters. Yeah. And I’m starting, this is a preview, I’m starting that chapter with quotes from, Stephen Sondheim is a, um, a playwright and who wrote many lyrics, and he wrote a play called Into the Woods, and I’m using a couple of lines which say, “Careful what you say, children are hearing.

[00:30:30] Elyse: Careful what you do, children will see.” And I had to g- I had to get the rights for that through his estate, by the way, to use it in the book. So it starts, th- so much of it is circular. I mean, it starts with parents learning to look at what their own relationship with food is like and bringing up their children in a weight neutral and food neutral, you know, food neutral way.

[00:30:53] Elyse: Teenagers are fascinating. I love teenagers. I work with a lot of them. And w- this has just been so amazing to me. Pretty much every teenager I talk to about social justice has a buy-in. They are, uh, I will say to them, “How do you feel about, do you th- think people of all different identities, race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, do they deserve equal treatment?”

[00:31:19] Elyse: And they go, “Well, of course. Everybody.” I mean, these kids are hip, you know. Everybody deserves that. And I said, “Well, what do you think about people who are in larger bodies? They’re not getting equal treatment.” And I see this kind of click in them, this moment of, oh, you know? And they have not realized that there is such stigmatization and bias and, um, mistreatment of people in larger bodies.

[00:31:43] Elyse: So it’s kind of a, not that they immediately say, “Okay, fine, I’m gonna stop trying to be as skinny as I can be,” but what they’re doing is getting a new neural pathway to enter as, uh, ultimately hope to build on those, that neural pathway and let go of the other ones. Um, yes, teenagers are just trying to find a way to have some autonomy in life.

[00:32:06] Elyse: Toddlers, it starts when you’re a toddler, and I have, I’m a big believer in, uh, the fact that we hold all the thoughts and f- well, all the feelings essentially, that we’ve had all of our lives. I’m pretty old, and I’ve got a very strong toddler and teen in me . Just tell me what to do, and I’m gonna fight back.

[00:32:23] Elyse: So these, so teenagers, this is their developmental stage. This is the moment in which they’re trying to assert their own self. So I help them see that when you’re following some plan that somebody else has created from you, for you, some direction to not be the body that you’re meant to be, what’s really happening is you’re losing your autonomy.

[00:32:43] Elyse: And part of your development right now, your healthy development, is to be your own person. So what intuitive eating does is help you to eat and have a body that is meant for you, and to listen to yourself. And anything else, it’s n- not gonna work because you’re gonna rebel against it, and that’s your healthy ego.

[00:33:03] Stephanie: Yeah. And so as you were saying that, you mentioned as skinny as it can be, so I wanna talk about the whole trend of skinny talk, right? Yeah. Because that’s- Yes … like, there’s, there’s a segment of people who say, “We just have to, like, ban social media for the kids, and we have to ban skinny talk.” And in my mind, I’m like, “This is the world of the future.”

[00:33:22] Stephanie: Like, banning things is not the answer. Mm-hmm. But it’s teaching our children discernment-

[00:33:29] Elyse: Yes … to

[00:33:30] Stephanie: me is the answer. But I’d love to, to hear your thoughts

[00:33:32] Elyse: on it. Well, discernment and values.

[00:33:34] Stephanie: And

[00:33:34] Elyse: values. You see, when you start looking at helping a teenager understand what’s so important in themselves and other people, you know, who they are, their personality, their kindness, their integrity, their all of those things, and help them understand that if they’re just going to value a si- a body size, they’re really not in l- going to be in alignment with their values because m- when you talk to them, they have other values as well.

[00:34:00] Elyse: They’re really so happy to have friends that are faithful, to be able to, you know, be there for people, to be honest, all of those things. So helping them look th- at the fact that this drive toward skinniness is really not in alignment with who you are as, you know, your, your true self, your authentic self.

[00:34:19] Elyse: So yes, I agree with you. I think the more you ban something, the more people go after it, and they’ll find ways, dark ways, of, of, of getting this, right? You can’t-

[00:34:28] Stephanie: But it’s just like the restriction of food, it’s the same mechanism in the brain, right? When you restrict the food, you rebel.

[00:34:34] Elyse: Of, of course.

[00:34:34] Stephanie: When you prevent the kids from accessing something, they’re gonna find a way to find it, and then they won’t have the discernment to, like, process it.

[00:34:41] Elyse: Correct. And I think when people start to understand that that’s part of being human is to have that need to be autonomous, to rebel against being told what to do and what the right way is to do things. We have to develop our own, again, values and sense of, of, uh, moral compass and all of that, and not apply it to size or f- type of food or, or, you know, anything like that.

[00:35:04] Elyse: So, um,

[00:35:09] Elyse: understanding. Tell, t- don’t tell people what to eat because they’re just gonna rebel.

[00:35:14] Stephanie: So for anyone listening to this, it’s like, how can I help my teens? Mm-hmm. The first step is to help yourself, number one.

[00:35:20] Elyse: Correct. Correct.

[00:35:21] Stephanie: Right? And, and not tell, and model something different. Align what you’re saying and what you’re modeling in how you’re living your life.

[00:35:30] Elyse: Absolutely. Absolutely. I have seen thousands and thousands of clients over the 44 years I’ve been doing this work, and I will tell you, the vast majority of people, and I’m a certified eating disorder specialist as well. Yeah. The ma- mass, the, the majority of people with eating disorders can take it back to a comment that a parent, a grandparent, a doctor has said to them, and it just was like the trigger that got them going into restriction.

[00:36:00] Elyse: Um, so yeah. So if I can help these teens, and, and the younger ones. I have a client who’s 12 right now. Uh-

[00:36:08] Stephanie: Aw …

[00:36:08] Elyse: and it’s, y- you know, so, so important to, um-

[00:36:12] Stephanie: Do you, I think you co-authored the book on raising intuitive eaters.

[00:36:18] Elyse: Well, well, no, that’s one of the chapters in the Raising Te- uh, Intuitive Eaters, and- Okay,

[00:36:22] Stephanie: it’s a, it’s in a

[00:36:23] Elyse: chapter

[00:36:23] Elyse: yeah, that’s in one of the chapters. It started out in, I think the third edition. Mm. And then it evolved into the fourth edition, and now it’s evolved even more. I’ve made a, a lot of changes in it for the fifth edition. So. Okay. The teen book, though, I authored myself, and, um, I didn’t co-author that one. That one’s, that one’s my writing.

[00:36:43] Stephanie: And then one other thing I work sometimes with women, is that they want to help their children, and they will buy the workbook for Teen and Intuitive Eater, and then they’re doing it with their children while restricting themselves. And that’s, if I can get one message to the world, like don’t- It will not come genuine to your teen if you’re saying one thing and doing the work with them and doing something else on your own.

[00:37:07] Stephanie: That’s not gonna happen

[00:37:08] Elyse: Be careful what you say, children will hear. Be careful what you do, children will see. And so, yes, it starts, not to, not to blame parents because they’re brought up in this mess, um, but to help them heal themselves and i- in their process of healing themselves, be very careful about what they say and do.

[00:37:28] Stephanie: One last angle I wanna talk about, neurodivergency and intuitive eating. Uh-huh.

[00:37:33] Elyse: Yes.

[00:37:33] Stephanie: So there’s a lot of awareness to neurodivergencies. Yes. More, lot more diagnoses.

[00:37:41] Elyse: Yeah.

[00:37:41] Stephanie: And there’s a segment of people who are saying, with neurodivergency, we cannot be intuitive eater. The two don’t combine. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[00:37:50] Elyse: Well, that goes along with the myth of the, uh, hunger/fullness diet, as I was saying earlier. Intuitive eating isn’t just about hunger and fullness, it’s also not just about instinct. So if a person is neurodivergent and has certain texture issues, respect that. If you can’t tune into hunger and fullness, use that rational part of the mind to know that you need to nourish yourself every few hours throughout the day.

[00:38:15] Elyse: Understand the science. Um, so it, it’s upsetting to me when I hear that this segment of people can’t use intuitive eating or people with eating disorders can’t use it. There’s so much more to it, and certainly someone, even, you know, someone with ARFID, which is, um, uh, considered an eating disorder. Texture Yeah.

[00:38:35] Elyse: And there’s often a connection with neurodi- divergence and with ARFID as well. Mm-hmm. But even with that, just the foods you like, great. You decide which foods are comfortable for you and just nourish yourself. And so, you know, intuitive eating takes all that stigma away from, um, good food, bad food, that kind of thing.

[00:38:54] Elyse: So-

[00:38:55] Stephanie: A- a- I think that part of that segment of people who say that neurodivergency and intuitive eating don’t combine is, number one, they don’t understand intuitive eating and the intricacy of it. Right,

[00:39:05] Elyse: right.

[00:39:05] Stephanie: And then, two, they still think as intuitive eating as a, quote-unquote, diet. Right. A way of eating instead of the natural instinct of the human- Exactly

[00:39:14] Stephanie: being in their relationship to food.

[00:39:16] Elyse: Yeah, and they’re not understanding this piece that I keep repeating about the three parts of the brain. It’s not just instinct, ’cause there’s so many factors that will affect instinct, such as having a different way of thinking and, uh, sensing and texture issues and all of that.

[00:39:31] Elyse: Uh, so you look at your emotions around it, and you use your rational part of the mind to make the best choices to keep you the best nourished and happy with enjoying food. That, that piece.

[00:39:42] Stephanie: Yeah, and sometimes s- there’s something I call functional eating, when sometime with neurodivergency you need a schedule.

[00:39:49] Stephanie: You need like, I need to eat- Right … at 9:00 and at 12:00 and at 3:00 because I just don’t think about it. And that’s- Well- … part of intuitive eating as well.

[00:39:56] Elyse: Well, yes, and sometimes people are on medications that take away their appetite, you know, for their condition. Yes. For ADHD, let’s say, and it… And so they’ll say, “I can’t be an intuitive eater.”

[00:40:06] Elyse: Yes, you can. You just have to use that thinking part of your f- mind to be sure to make the best decisions. Try to eat, you know, plenty when you’re, before you take the medication. Try to have small bits of food throughout the day to nourish yourself. That is intuitive eating, and I think you got it, Stephanie.

[00:40:23] Elyse: I mean, they don’t understand intuitive eating, and that’s why- Yeah … they say you can’t use it.

[00:40:28] Stephanie: Um, I wanna close up to make sure that we respect, uh, your time. Um, 44 years of experience, written multiple book. Will continue to write. I’m assuming you’re continuing to be in practice.

[00:40:40] Elyse: Oh, yes. I’m never retiring.

[00:40:43] Stephanie: That’s what I… Like, I don’t wanna retire. I just wanna keep working at a moderate pace going forward and just be active in my life’s purpose, so I admire what you’re doing.

[00:40:53] Elyse: Thank you.

[00:40:53] Stephanie: I love your insight. What are you seeing five, 10 years from now in our weight neutral space? What is your-

[00:41:01] Elyse: Well, I think we’re going to have to have a lot of compassion that p- for people who drunk the Kool-Aid and were on these medications and are in a place now where they’re, um, you know, reverting, uh, returning to some very difficult places to be in this life.

[00:41:19] Elyse: And to, to… I think intuitive eating at that point is going to be helping people get back to their natural- Yeah … you know, wisdom, internal wisdom. Um, pretty much, you know, the things that they’re saying that these drugs do for people, it’s all temporary. I was even reading an article in The New Yorker about, um, drug addiction and how they think it’s helping people- Yeah

[00:41:41] Elyse: with drug addiction, and even in that article, the scientists were saying, “But this is gonna wear off. Eventually, it’s going to come back.” So we have to be very clear about that. So with any hope, intuitive eating is just gonna be there for a pla- to… as a place for people to land when they’ve gone kind of out the other direction.

[00:42:03] Stephanie: Yeah, it’s a therapeutic framework to help people regain normal eating, right? So to me, that, I agree with you, it’s gonna be the healing path in the aftermath of the era we’re in right now.

[00:42:16] Elyse: Yes, and that’s another big reason f- why parents need to, you know, heal their own relationship with food, so that their children will not have to- Mm

[00:42:29] Elyse: you know, be at risk for eating disorders, disordered eating, and all of that. It’s, uh, it’s, it… Helping, helping those children trust. You know, the intuitive eating was, originally we were looking at toddlers, and if you give toddlers a wide array of foods with no judgment, they get everything they need to grow and be healthy.

[00:42:51] Elyse: And I have the privilege of having worked with many, many people who went through the process, became parents, raising their kids, and their kids don’t have eating problems. They tell me, “Yeah, the, the friends come over and they go to the, the drawer of fun food,” or whatever you wanna call it, “and they can’t stop eating it, where my kid,” it’s like, “Ah, if they want chocolate for breakfast, they eat some chocolate for breakfast.

[00:43:13] Elyse: Who cares? Or ice cream.” You know, so, uh- Yeah, it’s very important that we… This is generational and that we help the future generations by healing now

[00:43:27] Stephanie: We become, I know for me, I become, I became a cycle breaker. Like, I broke the cycle of my grandmother, of my mother-

[00:43:35] Elyse: Mm …

[00:43:36] Stephanie: so that my nieces have a different look and a different possibility.

[00:43:42] Stephanie: That’s the way I’m looking at it from a feminist lens.

[00:43:44] Elyse: Well, that’s, yeah, that’s your gift, you know, to, to your family in that way. Yeah. Um, and there’s such peace that comes when you stop trying to control things and you just listen to yourself, and you can, and bring in satisfaction. People ask me, “Well, how do I start intuitive eating?”

[00:44:00] Elyse: And I say, “Just think about satisfaction. Think about how satisfying a, a particular meal is.” A- and I’ll, something I will say to clients, I’ll say, “Well, do you think you’d eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on your way to your favorite restaurant for dinner?” And they look at me and go, “Elyse, come on.” “Of course not.”

[00:44:20] Elyse: And I say, “Well, why?” “Because I won’t have an appetite.” And I’ll go, “Bingo.” This is the, this is a natural way to understand that walking into a meal when you’re not hungry or walking into a meal when you’re fully, you know, starved from the day, you’re not gonna get the satisfaction. So, kind of chase the satisfaction and see what factors will give you more pleasure and satisfaction in your eating.

[00:44:44] Stephanie: Hell yes to that, because that’s what help healed me, is chasing satisfaction.

[00:44:49] Elyse: Yes.

[00:44:50] Stephanie: And what I re- and I remember the moment where I was eating a bag of Doritos. That was my thing, Doritos. Mm-hmm. And I did it mindfully. Like, I sat down with my intuitive eating coach, and we did it. I’m like, “Doesn’t taste that good.”

[00:45:04] Stephanie: But when I binge on it, I never taste the food, right? I’m just, like, binging on it. But when I’m actually sitting down one chip at a time, it’s like, not that good. I’m like, do I wanna spend my appetite on a bag of Doritos- Mm … or boeuf bourguignon? I’m like, ugh.

[00:45:22] Elyse: Or perhaps it does taste delicious, and you get to that point after a certain amount where it, it loses it, its joy.

[00:45:30] Elyse: There’s something called sensory specific satiety, which comes from the field of hedonics, the field of pleasure. After the first few bites of food, what they call pleasantness, the pleasantness decreases. Mm. So one way or the other, either it’s not as good as you thought it was, or it’s so delicious but by, by the time you’ve had enough- Two,

[00:45:48] Stephanie: three

[00:45:49] Elyse: and as long as you, and I wanna make one comment about, uh, this is a social justice comment. Not everybody has access to enough food or a variety of foods, and so, you know, we have to respect the fact people can get whatever food you can get to nourish your body and have, you know, enough energy to go on.

[00:46:08] Stephanie: Whatever’s

[00:46:09] Elyse: accessible, and

[00:46:09] Stephanie: that’s

[00:46:10] Elyse: the thing, right? Whatever’s accessible. Whatever’s, you know, you take a parent with three kids working three jobs, and they don’t have the time or the energy or the access to go get all organic, you know- cook the broccoli and the… No, just get them what you can get them, because what’s really most important is that they get energy in.

[00:46:28] Stephanie: Yeah, to get food in.

[00:46:29] Elyse: Yeah, to get food, which is energy. Yeah.

[00:46:32] Stephanie: It was a pleasure, uh, for me to have this conversation with you. Again, thank you, and I share offline, and I’m gonna share it publicly, intuitive eating is what changed my life. Like sh- Mm-hmm … like, um, Elise was saying, like she’s doing her life purpose, and I, I shared with her like her life purpose was changing my life.

[00:46:51] Stephanie: Mm. It, like, changed me 12 years ago when I read the book, and then when I did the personal work, and now have the pleasure of helping other people.

[00:46:59] Elyse: Yeah.

[00:47:00] Stephanie: And I know that many people are listening right now, and they’re saying, ‘Me too, me too, me too,’ because I have about 50% of my audience that are professionals.

[00:47:07] Stephanie: So thank you.

[00:47:08] Elyse: Mm. Well, thank you for this opportunity. Every chance I get to talk about my favorite subject. Thank you, Stephanie.

[00:47:15] Stephanie: Ha- have a good day, and thank you- Thank you … for being here. And all the links will be in the show notes.

[00:47:19] Elyse: Thank

[00:47:21] Stephanie: you. It was a pleasure. Thank you very much, Elise.

[00:47:25] Stephanie: If you’re loving what you’re learning on the podcast, you have to come and check out Confident, my program on body acceptance and the confidence that grows from it. Come to our website to stephaniedodier.com/confident. This way you can take the concept that I teaching you on the podcast further into actual application in your life so you can feel confident, stop worrying about your weight, other people’s opinion, and care for your wellbeing without weight loss.

[00:47:59] Stephanie: Come and join me and other women learning how to reshape your confidence, not your body. I’ll see you there