494-Type 2: A Non-Diet Approach to Diabetes with Kristie Messerli

What is a non-diet approach to type 2 diabetes?

A non-diet approach to type 2 diabetes manages blood sugar without making weight loss or food restriction the goal. It treats type 2 diabetes as what it is: a condition driven by insulin resistance, where the body has a harder time moving sugar from the bloodstream into the cells. The focus is on behaviors that improve insulin sensitivity and are sustainable for life, not on changing body size.

This approach rests on a few points that registered dietitian and diabetes educator Kristie Messerli explains on the It’s Beyond The Food podcast, episode 494. Sugar alone does not cause type 2 diabetes. Body size does not cause it either; people at every weight are diagnosed. Genetics plays a major role. And repeated weight cycling, losing and regaining weight over years, is associated with worsening insulin resistance, which makes another diet a questionable prescription.

In practice, a non-diet approach keeps carbohydrates in the diet, since they are the body’s preferred fuel and its main source of fiber. It emphasizes pairing carbs with protein and fiber for steadier blood sugar and better satiety, adding regular movement at any level, and accounting for the many non-food factors that affect blood sugar, such as stress, sleep, illness and some medications. It fits with intuitive eating through gentle nutrition, which brings a medical condition into food choices without rigid rules.

A non-diet approach also treats medication as a tool rather than a failure. Type 2 diabetes is a lifelong diagnosis that can sometimes be put into remission but is not “reversed,” so the goal is a plan a person can sustain. Working with a registered dietitian or certified diabetes care and education specialist is recommended for individual guidance, especially when starting medication.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Stephanie: Welcome to It’s Beyond the Food podcast, my sister. I’m your host, Stephanie Dodier, and today we have a guest, and we’re gonna do myth busting on type 2 diabetes with Kristy. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:11] Kristie: Thank you for having me

[00:00:13] Stephanie: Uh, I’ve, I’ve been very excited to have this podcast episode, so we’re gonna have a lot of

[00:00:17] Kristie: fun Me too.

[00:00:18] Kristie: Me too. Good.

[00:00:19] Stephanie: Uh, so Christy is a registered dietician, a certified diabetes care and education specialist who’s worked in diabetes cares for over 10 years, and she uses a weight neutral approach to help her client make peace with food and with their diagnoses, and that’s the piece that when I found you, I’m like, “Oh,” because I’m a lot into mindset in my work- Yeah

[00:00:42] Stephanie: so I’m like, “This is so good.”

[00:00:44] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:45] Stephanie: How did you came to do this work? I know you’re a dietician. You went to school for dietetic, but how did you came to specialize in type two diabetes?

[00:00:53] Kristie: So it’s really funny because I don’t have a family history of diabetes. I think sometimes when people have these specific niches, there’s a very personal tie to it, so my personal tie is not within my family or something I saw growing up or something I saw within family members.

[00:01:08] Kristie: It actually came from when I became a dietician, I started interning at a tribal health center in my hometown, and right when I began, my aunt is actually a dietician in Seattle, and she owns an eating disorder clinic. And she told me, “You are going to want to start tracking your hours for diabetes. You should be a diabetes educator now that you have this job.”

[00:01:30] Kristie: And at first I was like, “I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve ever, like, really enjoyed diabetes.” But I, I had never worked in diabetes yet. Um, I was a new graduate. I didn’t know what I wanted my niche to be, but I accepted a really cool job, and right away I started seeing people as young as 13 with a type two diabetes diagnosis.

[00:01:51] Kristie: Um, and so my aunt was actually extremely correct. I started tracking my hours and really fell in love with educating people around diabetes, really showing that people could still enjoy their cultural foods and still enjoy a really fulfilled life with diabetes and not feel like their whole life was over.

[00:02:08] Kristie: People would tell me all the time, “I feel like I was given a death sentence,” and it was almost my– I felt like it was almost my calling to show people that it actually isn’t a death sentence, and people can live really long, happy, healthy lives with diabetes. So that’s kind of where it began. Now, when I was working there, COVID also happened in 2020, and that’s kind of what helped me start my own private practice online.

[00:02:32] Kristie: I was no longer super happy at the place I was at. Obviously, things changed dramatically during COVID. I was no longer seeing patients. We actually turned into, like, a drive-through pharmacy at the clinic I was at, so I no longer was educating people on diabetes, even though diabetes was still rampant. Um, I no longer was doing any nutrition education, um, continuous glucose monitor education, nothing like that.

[00:02:55] Kristie: And so I started my own online private practice just to see how it would go. And within months I was pretty successful in the online space because everyone is given the same information, just lose weight, cut carbs, move your body more, and your A1C and your blood sugars will get better. So that’s kind of how I came about online, and I’ve worked in diabetes my whole career at this point, which is about 10 years.

[00:03:20] Stephanie: Wow. So it is personal, but from a different angle.

[00:03:23] Kristie: For a different standpoint, yes.

[00:03:24] Stephanie: Yeah. Um, I just wanna share for the group and for you to know, uh, this is obviously, a, just a one case scenario of me. I was diagnosed with prediabetes at 38 after just been losing 100 pounds. So I was highly restrictive, just- Right

[00:03:41] Stephanie: cycled weight my whole life, 25 years, and that was my last diet. I ended up being diagnosed with prediabetes at 38. Fast-forward today, I’m 51, I have nothing. Like, I’m, and I’m not saying that’s the truth for everyone, I’m just saying- Right … I’m a lived example of what you’re about to say, that-

[00:04:02] Kristie: Right …

[00:04:03] Stephanie: it’s not a dead sentence, and it doesn’t have anything to do in most cases with restricting and losing weight because I’m- Yeah

[00:04:10] Stephanie: heavier than I was, and yet- Yeah … I don’t have diabetes.

[00:04:13] Kristie: Yep. Yep.

[00:04:15] Stephanie: So.

[00:04:15] Kristie: I’ve seen people of all body sizes receive a diabetes diagnosis. In fact, I had a client who was in a smaller body, and her diabetes went undiagnosed for two years because she was in a smaller body. She was not tested for any type of metabolic condition, and she was actually a marathon runner and was running a race and ended up in a coma from high blood sugars.

[00:04:41] Kristie: And her story is really resonant with a lot of people because similarly, when people in larger bodies are just assumed to have diabetes, hers is on the other end of the spectrum where she actually went undiagnosed for a period of time simply based off of her body.

[00:04:54] Stephanie: Yeah. So, and that’s weight stigma. Yeah.

[00:04:56] Stephanie: Right? We always hear of weight stigma in people- Mm-hmm … with larger body. Yep. But that’s an example of weight stigma of people in smaller body that are not being tested.

[00:05:05] Kristie: Yep. Absolutely.

[00:05:07] Stephanie: So, so let’s, so I have a collection of myths, and these myths are from my 10 years of working with people in a non-diet approach, and health is always the number one objection, right?

[00:05:20] Stephanie: These people say, “Yeah, that sounds good, but what about health?”

[00:05:23] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:24] Stephanie: And then number two is, “But I have diabetes,” or, “I’ve been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes.” Mm-hmm. So I have a collection of myth that I’ve had to, like, work people with, but I’m curious to put them in front of you and see what you have to say.

[00:05:38] Kristie: All right. Let’s go.

[00:05:39] Stephanie: Okay. Number one, eating too much sugar gave me Type 2 diabetes.

[00:05:46] Kristie: Yes. The, this is false. Um, this would be, this would be making a causal relationship and saying that everybody who eats a lot of sugar then would have diabetes, and people who don’t necessarily eat a lot of sugar wouldn’t have diabetes.

[00:06:00] Kristie: And although lifestyle factors and our food of course can contribute to a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis, but if we knew that it just came down to sugar, we would have it all figured out. Diabetes would no longer be being studied. If we knew this causes diabetes, then we wouldn’t be still researching it and coming out with tons of new information around genetics and other things that do contribute to a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis.

[00:06:24] Stephanie: That’s a great explanation. And maybe we need to pause a minute and say, like, for those who don’t have Type 2 diabetes, who are not, don’t even know, what is Type 2 diabetes? Yeah. Maybe we can ask that first before the first myth. So I, sorry, go back.

[00:06:37] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:06:38] Stephanie: What is Type 2 diabetes?

[00:06:40] Kristie: So Type 2 diabetes is basically your body’s impaired ability to move sugar from your bloodstream and into the cells, and so the underlying cause of this is actually insulin resistance.

[00:06:51] Kristie: So people think it’s a blood sugar problem, but it’s actually an insulin resistance problem, and in order to improve Type 2 diabetes and improve your blood sugars, we have to improve insulin resistance. And so what, what we really want is for, so for example, if we eat something like a banana or a piece of bread or a, a donut, it doesn’t matter the source of the carbohydrate.

[00:07:10] Kristie: When we eat anything that has carbohydrates, the sugar gets broken down in our bloodstream. Insulin helps pull that sugar from our cell, or from our blood into our cells to be utilized for energy. Now, with insulin resistance, what happens is those, that sugar is not able to go into our cells as effectively as we want, hence having an elevated blood sugar.

[00:07:30] Kristie: So the whole goal is to help those cells be a lot more receptive to insulin so that way sugar can move from the bloodstream into the cells at a faster pace and more appropriately.

[00:07:40] Stephanie: And that is different than type 1 diabetes, which is a whole different category-

[00:07:44] Kristie: Yes …

[00:07:44] Stephanie: correct?

[00:07:45] Kristie: Yeah. Type 1, there is no insulin being produced whatsoever, so people have to be on endogenous insulin with type 1 diabetes because the pancreas is not functioning at all.

[00:07:55] Stephanie: Excellent. So today we’re focused on type 2 diabetes.

[00:07:59] Kristie: Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:59] Stephanie: And hence, the first myth. When, when people start understanding the pathology, the mechanism of type 2 diabetes, people are like, “It’s because I ate too much sugar.”

[00:08:08] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:08:08] Stephanie: What is the causes of diabetes? If it’s not sugar, then what causes diabetes?

[00:08:13] Kristie: Yeah. I mean, definitely, you know, nutrition does have a role in a development of type 2 diabetes and, you know, so does, like, a sedentary lifestyle. There are so many things that we already know. It’s like but those are the things that we’re, we grip onto. Okay, well, it must be that I didn’t move my body, and it must be that I ate in a certain type of way.

[00:08:32] Kristie: Um, and although those can be true, right? Like, we could hold the duality of the nutrition part can 100% be true, but we would be doing ourselves a disservice by not looking also at the biggest factor, which would be genetics. Genetics is going to play the biggest role in a type 2 diabetes diagnosis than really anything else is going to.

[00:08:52] Stephanie: Yeah, because like my family, both my mother and my dad, we … There’s no diabetes. Doesn’t exist.

[00:08:59] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:00] Stephanie: In other family, like, almost everyone in the family has diabetes. Mm-hmm. So that’s something you guys need to, when you, when we think about diabetes, look at just more than your current environment. What does your lineage also- Yeah

[00:09:14] Stephanie: stand for? That’s what the genetic component

[00:09:16] Kristie: is about. Yeah, and when I worked at the, the tribal clinic that I was referring to earlier- Mm … in the episode, um, you know, uh, uh, the Native American population has the highest prevalence of type 2 diabetes. And so I was seeing diabetes in, like I said, ages, like, 13, 14, 15 years old, where in other populations I’m not necessarily seeing that.

[00:09:37] Kristie: And the … Yeah, we do have to look at the lineage. Um, we do. And most of the young kids or teens that I would work with, they were seeing diabetes both on Mom and Dad’s side, and it was in Grandma and Grandpa, in Great-Grandma and Grandpa, in aunts and uncles. So it was really prevalent in their families.

[00:09:53] Stephanie: Yeah. Okay, so that we’ve got what is diabetes. We got the first myth, which is I ate too much sugar, it caused type 2 diabetes. That’s a no. Here’s the next big one. In my world of body image, my weight caused me to have diabetes.

[00:10:09] Kristie: Yeah. Yep, I hear this all the time. Um, so again, it kind of goes back to the sugar myth because that would be s- then saying that everybody who is above a certain weight, or, you know, I never use the BMI scale, but for the sake of, you know, the medical system, because they do use the BMI scale, that would also be saying that anyone above a certain BMI would have diabetes, and anyone below that would not have diabetes if there were a causal relationship with your weight.

[00:10:36] Kristie: And so, as I was saying earlier, the client that I had who was a marathon runner and actually very low on the BMI scale still had a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis. So we see people of all body sizes, of all different weights get a diabetes diagnosis.

[00:10:50] Stephanie: Okay, so part two of that question would then be, okay, so the layer of fat on my body, like the fat on my body doesn’t cause diabetes, but my doctor told me it increased my risk significantly.

[00:11:04] Kristie: And, you know, there is, there is research around, like, the visceral fat, right? So all of us hold fat in different places, you know? S- our bodies are all built so differently. And so some people hold more weight on their upper body, some people hold more weight on their lower body. There is research that holding weight more in your stomach area, which is not something we can necessarily control, that is also a very genetic factor.

[00:11:27] Kristie: Um, me and my family, you know, the women in my family hold more weight at the bottom, like in their thigh area. Some people in their lineage hold a lot of weight in their stomach area. We do know that there is research that holding more weight in the visceral or midsection can increase risk for metabolic dysfunction or insulin resistance.

[00:11:49] Kristie: But again, it’s not necessarily a weight thing. It’s more where is the fat distributed on your body, because we all have fat on our body. And again, it kind of goes back to our genetics. Like, genetically, where are we seeing that fat deposition at?

[00:12:04] Stephanie: And can I also say it also would also, uh, the influence could also be how did the fat get there?

[00:12:11] Stephanie: And I’m gonna- Yeah … get us to the weight cycling.

[00:12:14] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:12:15] Stephanie: Because when- Yeah … we believe, and this is the debate or the conversation I’m always having with people, even if you believe and your doctor told you that your weight causes diabetes, then what?

[00:12:28] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:12:28] Stephanie: Then, then what happened? The only solution is to lose the weight.

[00:12:32] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:33] Stephanie: Which most people will go on a, on a diet of some kind or an in- Yeah … GLP-1 of some kind, lose the weight, but then the weight comes back. Now what?

[00:12:41] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:41] Stephanie: Right? So how did the, how did you get to be, to have the weight? Is it through weight cycling, is always my question. And is there any evidence that weight cycling is in part contributing to type 2 diabetes?

[00:12:54] Kristie: Yes. Weight cycling, um, you know, increase or gaining and losing the same amount of weight, or gaining 20 pounds, losing 10 pounds, you know, d- just kind of on that cycle, which most women I work with have been on that cycle since they were little. I mean, like nine years old, going to Jenny Craig with their mom, you know?

[00:13:11] Kristie: That’s what a lot of women tell me, is, “I’ve been doing Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, keto. I’ve been doing some type of dieting since before puberty.” So we’d be really doing a disservice by saying that being on a diet from nine years old and then getting a type 2 diabetes diagnosis at age 40 or 45 or whatever age it’s at, that there’s not a correlation there, because people have been gaining and losing weight for the last three decades.

[00:13:33] Kristie: Um, there, and we know that insulin resistance increases the more that you are doing that. So the more that you are w- and remember, insulin resistance is the underlying cause of type 2 diabetes. So we know that insulin resistance gets worse over time as you are doing that weight cycling.

[00:13:50] Stephanie: And there’s also the incr- we do know, based on research, of increased inflammation with- Mm-hmm

[00:13:55] Stephanie: weight cycling.

[00:13:56] Kristie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:58] Stephanie: Which can also be a risk for insulin resistance.

[00:14:02] Kristie: Yep.

[00:14:03] Stephanie: Okay. So pre-diabetes topic, which is the- topic, many people will come and say, I quote, “been diagnosed with prediabetes.”

[00:14:15] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:16] Stephanie: Is that a thing?

[00:14:18] Kristie: Yes, yeah. Prediabetes is definitely a thing, and it is saying that your body is having an impaired metabolic response.

[00:14:26] Kristie: Now, we know that insulin resistance can start occurring very young, you know, um, especially if, especially in women who have, like, PCOS, right? PCOS is another, um, metabolic condition that n- there’s 50% of women with PCOS will end up with a type 2 diabetes diagnosis, and it’s because the underlying cause of PCOS is insulin resistance, and the underlying cause of type 2 diabetes is also insulin resistance.

[00:14:51] Kristie: So yes, insulin resistance is the underlying cause also of prediabetes. Now, prediabetes is basically telling your body that there is an impaired glucose response happening in the body, and it is something to take seriously, and it is something to really look at, like, “Okay, this is my body’s warning sign,” basically, that my insulin resistance has probably gotten worse over time.

[00:15:13] Kristie: Also remembering that the person diagnosed with prediabetes has probably been living with insulin resistance for a very long time, but now the body’s gotten to a point where the glucose is no longer being taken into the cells as efficiently as it once was. But it doesn’t mean that insulin resistance hasn’t been occurring for a long period of time.

[00:15:31] Kristie: It’s not like one day you were perfectly fine, and the next day you have prediabetes. Usually, insulin resistance shows up years and years before a prediabetes diagnosis does.

[00:15:41] Stephanie: So it is a diagnoses- Mm-hmm … that is made based on the, I’ll quote a, a test here, “HbA1c,” correct?

[00:15:49] Kristie: Yes. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:50] Stephanie: Okay. Can you explain what HbA1c is for people?

[00:15:54] Kristie: Sure. So the HbA1c would be your average blood sugar over a three-month time span. Now, the, um, the life of a red blood cell is about three months, and so the sugar that’s attached to your red blood cells over a three-month time span gives us our average A1c, so that’s kind of where it comes from. So over a three-month time span when we’re looking at w- how much re- how much sugar is attached to these red blood cells over the lifespan that they have over that three months, that’s basically what an A1c is.

[00:16:25] Kristie: So we’re looking at is, is the sugar able to detach from these red blood cells and go into the cell quickly, or is it staying attached to the cells and in the blood for too long? That’s basically what we’re looking at with an A- an A1c.

[00:16:39] Stephanie: And so when you pass a certain threshold result of HbA1c, you fall into the category of pre-diabetes?

[00:16:47] Stephanie: Is that the, how they diagnose it?

[00:16:49] Kristie: Yep, so the d- the pre-diabetes diagnosis, um, would be an A1c between 5.7 and 6.4. That would be the result. And then anything above a 6.4 would be considered a pre- a, a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis.

[00:17:03] Stephanie: Perfect. Okay. So it is possible to be diagnosed as pre-diabetes, and it is a, a medical condition that needs to be addressed.

[00:17:13] Kristie: Right.

[00:17:13] Stephanie: Okay. Cool. How do we address it? So I’ll get into the food category myths, because- Mm-hmm … the number one way that people are being told to address a pre-diabetes or a diabetes diagnosis is to cut carbs.

[00:17:31] Kristie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is

[00:17:33] Stephanie: that a myth?

[00:17:34] Kristie: It is a myth, and I understand the logic behind it. I totally do. I understand, okay, if I eat carbs and this increases my blood sugars, if I just cut them out, my blood sugars will come down.

[00:17:44] Kristie: I get it. I get the, I get the rationale and I get how we want to be able to conceptualize it so we feel that we have a lot of control. However, our bodies are very, very, very smart, and we have to remember that there are only three macronutrients, carbs, fat, and protein. When we remove a whole macronutrient, we have to think, “What am I, what am I also removing that’s beneficial for my health?”

[00:18:07] Kristie: You know, same if we remove fat from our diet or protein from our diet. There are consequences that happen when we remove those things. So for example, you remove carbohydrates. Well, by default we are eating a diet that’s very high in fat and very high in protein, ’cause if we remove a whole macronutrient, we have to make up for those calories in that food in the two other macronutrients.

[00:18:29] Kristie: Carbs are also our fiber source. It would be almost impossible to get enough fiber if we are cutting carbohydrates completely. It’s also important to note that carbohydrates are our body’s preferred energy source, so our bodies run on carbohydrates. It’s what creates the energy that we have to play with our kids, to show up at work, to wake up the next day.

[00:18:51] Kristie: And so when we’re removing that, we tend to have pretty negative side effects such as, like, fatigue, tiredness, unable to, like, kind of keep up in life. Um, and it can make our insulin resistance actually worse over time, because if our diet is high in fat and high in protein, we’re probably eating a diet that’s very high in saturated fat.

[00:19:12] Kristie: And when our diet is very high in saturated fat, this can increase our risk for, like, elevated cholesterol, elevated triglycerides, et cetera, which in default actually makes insulin resistance worse.

[00:19:24] Stephanie: Okay. So we, uh, explored the option of cutting the carbs completely. What about the myth of eliminating, quote, “processed carb,” processed food-

[00:19:37] Kristie: Mm-hmm

[00:19:37] Stephanie: without completely eliminating carbs? Like, I’m still gonna eat, like, fruits and vegetables, but I’m gonna eliminate everything that’s processed, and that’s gonna- Reverse, or we’ll get into reverse situation in a bit The b- boom But eliminate diabetes, prevent it

[00:19:51] Kristie: So similarly, you know, all food is processed to some degree, and I don’t think people realize that even the bananas that you grab from the grocery store actually do go through a processing situation.

[00:20:02] Kristie: It’s not just you picked it off of a tree and you’re eating it. I mean, in some places, in Nevada where I live, that’s not happening here. Um, and so all food goes through some type of processing to some degree. Now, if someone tells me, “You know, I prefer not to eat processed foods. I still wanna eat carbs, but I prefer it to come from fruits and vegetables and things like that,” that is totally fine.

[00:20:24] Kristie: Um, you know, I think honoring where people are coming from, but also showing people, like, you actually don’t have to do that to manage your blood sugars. You could eat things like crackers and still manage your blood sugars. Um, it doesn’t make you a morally better or less of a moral person if you decide to or not to do that.

[00:20:42] Stephanie: And that’s the thing. It becomes a personal choice, but that’s called autonomy.

[00:20:47] Kristie: Yes.

[00:20:47] Stephanie: And that’s what most people think they lose when they get a type 2 diabetes. Like, like I can’t- Yeah … make my own decision. I gotta follow rules now.

[00:20:55] Kristie: Yep, yep, exactly, yeah. And I always… You know, I definitely honor everyone’s autonomy, but if someone tells me, “I want to eat a low-carb diet.

[00:21:05] Kristie: I wanna be keto,” they- I will kindly not take them on as a client because that’s not what I recommend, and I know what the research shows, and I wanna make sure people are set up with the best success possible.

[00:21:16] Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s also sustainability because if you, if you are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes is not something that’s gonna leave your life.

[00:21:26] Stephanie: It’s gonna be with you, so n- now the approach that you take, is it sustainable?

[00:21:31] Kristie: Yeah, and just knowing that it’s simply okay to just like carbs. I think people forget, like, it’s okay just to like them and not want to eliminate them, even if the research shows A, B, and C, or even if, you know, there’s a ton of things behind it, but if at the end of the day you’re like, “Well, I actually really enjoy carbs and I really like to eat them,” like allowing people to do so in a way that still manages their blood sugars is, like, a, a reason in and of itself to continue to eat carbs.

[00:21:58] Stephanie: Okay. Here’s another myth around food and eating: I cannot be an intuitive eater if I’ve been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.

[00:22:09] Kristie: Mm. Yeah, so I wouldn’t consider myself an intuitive eating dietician, as I’ve never done, like- Yeah … the course or the curriculum, but I love, love, love the… I do know what’s involved in the curriculum, and I have a ton of colleagues in the intuitive eating space.

[00:22:23] Kristie: I did a wonderful c- podcast with an intuitive eating dietician, and I know that she hears this all the time. And the thing about intuitive eating is a big part of intuitive eating is honoring your nutrition and honoring what your body actually needs. It’s not just eating whatever whenever. Part of intuitive eating is, you know, “Okay, I want Oreo cookies, and I also know that this is a higher carb food.

[00:22:46] Kristie: There’s no protein. There’s no fiber, so I’m gonna have this actually with a yogurt because my body needs that. My body needs the sustainability. My body needs the balance.” That’s actually the part of intuitive eating that people don’t talk about, is it’s not just, “Okay, I want Oreos, so I’m gonna eat Oreos.”

[00:23:00] Kristie: It’s like, “Okay, I want Oreos, and this is gonna affect my blood sugars in a negative way, so what can I have with the Oreos that’s going to create that balance that I’m looking for?”

[00:23:09] Stephanie: Yeah. So as an intuitive eating counselor, that’s called gentle nutrition.

[00:23:13] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:23:13] Stephanie: Honoring your health. Like- Mm … it’s the last piece of intuitive eating, where who you are as an individual, cultural, medical condition, gets then brought into your nutrition practice.

[00:23:25] Kristie: Right.

[00:23:26] Stephanie: So, okay. Exactly. So it’s not an automation that you cannot be an intuitive eater.

[00:23:31] Kristie: Right.

[00:23:32] Stephanie: Is food the only thing that impact my blood sugar?

[00:23:38] Kristie: This is actually a wonderful question, because I forget the– It’s a research company came out with there are actually 42 factors that can affect our blood sugar, and I think people are really shocked at that because we’re always told, “Well, if you just eat better and you move your body, then your blood sugars are just going to get better.”

[00:23:55] Kristie: Those two things do matter, you know, our nutrition matters and our movement- affect our blood sugars. Everything from environmental, like, uh, s- a sunburn can cause your blood sugars to be elevated. Um, if you’re on certain medications, like antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication, that can, that can increase your blood sugars.

[00:24:17] Kristie: Um, so yeah, I, the answer, uh, the long-winded answer is no, there are so many things that can affect our blood sugars, and it’s really important that, yes, we tackle the nutrition and we tackle the movement, but we’re doing ourselves a disservice by not tackling the other 40 things that could be affecting our blood sugars as well.

[00:24:33] Stephanie: And that’s why when people w- work with an expert like you, you understand the other 40 things and you’re assessing for the other 40 things.

[00:24:41] Kristie: Absolutely. I never, if someone tells me, “Chrissy, I ate this one meal and my blood sugar was high,” I never just go back and blame the meal. I will always ask the person several questions around that, because yes, it could definitely be the meal.

[00:24:53] Kristie: Maybe we come down to the fact that, okay, maybe this meal was, like, too low in protein and fiber and too high in carb for you specifically. How can we adjust this? Of course, that does happen. Sometimes, though, someone will eat a very balanced meal and have a high blood sugar, and they’re like, “I can’t eat this meal anymore,” and it’s something very basic, like chicken, rice, and broccoli.

[00:25:11] Kristie: I’m like, “It probably wasn’t the chicken, rice, and broccoli.” And when we dig in deep, maybe they went into that meal feeling really stressed out. Maybe they’re at work and they had a quick lunch break and they ate the meal and they’re still experiencing a high blood sugar. There’s a lot of things that could affect that number to be elevated that has nothing to do with food.

[00:25:26] Stephanie: Okay. I didn’t put that in my myth, but I ask you because you mentioned it. You, we talked at length about food, but you mentioned a few times movement.

[00:25:35] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:36] Stephanie: So is movement something that can help with Type 2 diabetes? And if so, how? Movement is…

[00:25:42] Kristie: Yeah, movement can really help move that sugar into the cells to be utilized a lot faster.

[00:25:48] Kristie: And so, you know, if we’re sedentary all day, that sugar can sit in our bloodstream way longer than we want. But even just getting up from your seat, no- I’m not even saying intense movement or intense exercise, even just moving your body, even if you’re someone who is wheelchair-bound, maybe you’re unable to actually get up, but moving your arms, just, like, creating some type of movement in your day is going to help that sugar move out of your bloodstream and into the cells a lot faster.

[00:26:15] Kristie: Our muscles also act almost like a vacuum. I like people to almost envision a vacuum and, you know, so if we’re, if you and I are sitting here and we decided we are going to lift dumbbells, we’re, we’re gonna do a couple bicep curls, even with, like, very small weights, those muscles in our arms are kind of, like, almost sucking in sugar from our bloodstream into the muscles to be active as we sat here and did that.

[00:26:38] Kristie: So even if it wasn’t, uh, you know, I’m not sitting here bi- doing bicep curls with 70 pound weights or anything like that, but even if we had three pound weights that we were doing that with, our muscles are going to act like a vacuum and pull that sugar out of our bloodstream.

[00:26:51] Stephanie: So a protocol for somebody that has type 2 diabetes should include some form level of movement as much as a nutrition approach.

[00:27:02] Kristie: Absolutely, yeah. Whatever is available to them, you know? And start with what’s available to you. If right now you’re not moving your body at all, even one or two days a week, or even just getting up from being sedenta- I mean, I even have to set alarms for me. I’ll be sedentary all day and don’t realize how long I’ve actually been sitting for.

[00:27:21] Kristie: So, you know, even if it’s not a full-on exercise routine, but just moving your body a little bit more than you are now can be really beneficial for your blood sugars.

[00:27:28] Stephanie: Yeah, just you can even go walk around your own house. Yeah. Like in the winter, I do that. I just go from my office to the dining room, just back and forth 10 times, and I- Yep

[00:27:37] Stephanie: walk like, I don’t know, 500 meter.

[00:27:39] Kristie: Yep, exactly. Yeah, it could be something you do in your own home. Um, I have two dogs that get me outside, rain, snow, sunshine, doesn’t matter, so I’m always outside with them. But I- but, you know, it’s sometimes I’m like, “Well, even if I’m just moving my body at all and I can’t get a full exercise in, it doesn’t really matter.”

[00:27:57] Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s also how sometimes a conversation gets tricky. I know for me, but where people say, “But when I was in a smaller body, I wasn’t diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes.” Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Yeah, but what else were you doing?” When you were trying to manage- Oh … your weight, like be in the smaller body, you probably had different lifestyle habits.

[00:28:17] Kristie: For sure.

[00:28:17] Stephanie: Which probably- Absolutely … included movement, right?

[00:28:19] Kristie: Absolutely. Yeah, usually.

[00:28:22] Stephanie: And when you’re in the bounce back phase of weight cycling and you regain the weight, we do know that health-promoting habit are not typically sustained in the bounce back era because the motivation is no longer there.

[00:28:34] Stephanie: So is it the chicken or the eggs? We don’t know.

[00:28:37] Kristie: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We just know that it’s not beneficial for your long-term health to be yo-yo cycling. And, you know, I always say this on social media, but, like, if that diet you did worked, like, we wouldn’t have this epidemic of women with Type 2 diabetes, like, and it’s rampant.

[00:28:54] Kristie: So, you know, if we knew that, okay, if a young girl at 13 years old was put on Jenny Craig and it, quote-unquote, “worked,” she wouldn’t be 40 years old with a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis still trying to lose weight, still trying to cut out food, still try- still on this weight cycling journey.

[00:29:10] Stephanie: Okay. So let’s talk about reversing, because that’s another myth.

[00:29:14] Kristie: It is

[00:29:16] Stephanie: Can we reverse type 2 diabetes?

[00:29:18] Kristie: We cannot, and this will make the internet mad. Anytime I post about it, people get very mad. Um, what we call it actually according to the standards of care would be remission. You can put your diabetes into remission, and what this looks like is an A1C less than 5.7 without medication, even metformin, for three months.

[00:29:37] Kristie: Now, this feels like a really beautiful goal for a lot of people, and at the same time, it’s very unattainable for a lot of people. And the reason why is that once you have a diabetes or pre-diabetes diagnosis, that again, that insulin resistance has been around for a very long time. So, you know, at what…

[00:29:57] Kristie: Um, I always make sure that people are not risking their own, like, happiness, their own joy, their own way of living just to have an A1C less than 5.7 and be off of medication. I don’t want people to just be, like, killing themselves trying to keep it there when medication can be used as a tool when necessary

[00:30:16] Stephanie: What do people fear?

[00:30:18] Stephanie: I know wellness culture has a lot to play, because that’s the- Right … whole, like, soapbox of wellness culture, is you can reverse Type 2 diabetes if you do my diets and take- Right … my supplements and all of that. But when you’re talking to people, why, is it just wellness culture that scared them off of taking metformin, for example, a medication?

[00:30:38] Kristie: Yeah, you know, I think that some people just find it a moral failure to be on medication for anything. Um, you know, metformin is a wonderful medication. It’s very well-studied, and it’s been around for a very long time. It’s very accessible, you know, uh, financially it’s a very accessible medication, even without insurance.

[00:30:56] Kristie: And so, um, you know, I think people have a lot of fear around side effects, which is understandable. However, I do think it’s this moral feeling that I have failed if I’m on medication, and that if I need that type of support. You know, we don’t, some people do, but a lot of us don’t look at that when we’re talking about medication for other conditions, though, right?

[00:31:15] Kristie: If someone has severe depression and they’re on an antidepressant, some people might look at that as a failure, but for the majority of our culture, we look at that as just getting help, just getting the help that they need. And so I love the conversation around changing the narrative that medication is a tool, and we actually should be using that tool if our blood sugars are elevated.

[00:31:36] Kristie: We should never maintain an elevated A1C just to avoid medication, because you’re putting yourself at risk for diabetes complications.

[00:31:45] Stephanie: Hmm. So it’s the whole healthism, right? The- Mm-hmm … putting the health status on the pedestal and attaching it to your worth. Yep. And the shame around that, that drives people, in part, to fear the medication.

[00:32:01] Kristie: Absolutely.

[00:32:03] Stephanie: And we have to work through that from a mindset perspective-

[00:32:06] Kristie: Yeah …

[00:32:06] Stephanie: to be able to do the right thing for our body, which is, in some cases, to take the medication.

[00:32:11] Kristie: Absolutely. Yeah, and not everybody can manage their blood sugars without medication. That’s not a universal concept, that if you just do X, Y, and Z, you can be off of medication.

[00:32:23] Kristie: That isn’t always the case.

[00:32:25] Stephanie: Is it true that as … Another thing that I’m hearing is that people, as they get older, they’re afraid that the medication won’t be enough, and they will start having other side effects.

[00:32:38] Kristie: I mean, of course, that’s always a possibility, you know, or that you’re on an oral medication, and then, you know, age in and of itself is a risk factor for type 2 diabetes.

[00:32:47] Kristie: So unfortunately, just as we all age, we might, you know, we might have a harder time managing our blood sugars, even if everything else is exactly the same. It’s just we’ve simply gotten older, and our bodies do not work the same as we get older. So, you know, even with age, that can happen. Um, but medication, especially, so something like metformin has been very well-studied, and it’s been very well-studied for people to take it indefinitely- Mm-hmm

[00:33:11] Kristie: and still, uh, really gain a lot of benefit from being on it. It’s not that our body just, quote-unquote, “gets used to” a medication. That’s pretty unlikely. Um, now of course, if you’re on a medication and you’re not doing the lifestyle habits and changes along with the medication, yes, the chances of needing more medication are high.

[00:33:31] Kristie: But if you are like, “Okay, I’m going to adopt these health-promoting behaviors, and I’m gonna take metformin,” then it’s gonna work collectively really, really well together.

[00:33:40] Stephanie: Enhance the sustainability- Right … of your health-promoting habit when you get the diagnosis are critical because you’re probably gonna be on medication for the rest of your life, so however you adapt your life, it’s critically important that it’s sustainable.

[00:33:55] Kristie: Absolutely. Yeah, sustainability is one thing that people don’t talk enough about, but is one of the most important things when it comes to your blood sugar management.

[00:34:02] Stephanie: Because your, it’s a diagnosis for the rest of your life, so whatever- Yeah … you do to change it needs to be sustained for the rest of your life.

[00:34:09] Kristie: Yep, absolutely.

[00:34:11] Stephanie: Okay. Let’s get into GLP-1.

[00:34:14] Kristie: Okay.

[00:34:14] Stephanie: Because that’s a- another hot topic. So we do know that GLP-1’s been studied extensively for type 2 diabetes.

[00:34:21] Kristie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:34:24] Stephanie: So if it– are people being prescribed GLP-1 for type 2 diabetes in today’s world the same as what it was originally designed for?

[00:34:39] Kristie: You know, it’s hard to say. I definitely think GLP-1s are on the up and up. Um, I think they’re being more prescribed and more readily available than they ever have before. I am actually a huge proponent for GLP-1s because they work so well in blood sugar management without a ton of side effects. Now, they do have side effects.

[00:34:58] Kristie: Um, but I– for my clients who have type 2 diabetes, they’ve been able– a lot of them have been able to get off of any oral medication and just take one GLP-1, which is really amazing for people who are normally on, like, three or four medications, being able to be on one medication. Um, it doesn’t cause low blood sugars, so people aren’t having that, like, shakiness and scared of, like, you know, possibly going into a coma, anything like that.

[00:35:21] Kristie: It doesn’t come with that side effect like insulin does. Um, it can be a really awesome medication for type 2 diabetes. Now, a side effect is weight loss, and so a lot of people will either lose weight or I have seen a handful of clients who have lost nothing being on GLP-1 medications, and they’re frustrated.

[00:35:41] Kristie: They’re like, “Well, why is this, quote-unquote, ‘working’ for everybody else but me?” Like, well, it actually, quote-unquote, “works” when your blood sugars are now within target. It is a diabetes– FDA approved for type 2 diabetes, not FDA approved for weight loss. So, you know, I’ve seen both sides where people, you know, are losing weight and they’re on them, and some people who have lost nothing who are on them, but their blood sugars are still very well managed.

[00:36:05] Kristie: So I would consider that a, that that medication is working

[00:36:09] Stephanie: So I did a whole series called Beyond GLP-1, where we had a whole bunch of weight-neutral experts dissect the whole topic of GLP-1, and what Regan Chasson brought forward was the dosage of GLP-1. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Whereby the long-term study of GLP-1 for type 2 diabetes was done into what she called a standard dose.

[00:36:31] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:32] Stephanie: And what the study on weight loss are being shown is on mega-dosing or super-dosing- Yes … she called it.

[00:36:40] Kristie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:40] Stephanie: So does that have an impact on type 2 diabetes, the-

[00:36:44] Kristie: Yes …

[00:36:44] Stephanie: dosage, I guess?

[00:36:46] Kristie: The dosage for sure will have an impact on type 2 diabetes. You know, if someone can be, um, you know, let’s just talk about Mounjaro because that’s, you know, um, you know, usually you titrate up.

[00:36:57] Kristie: You start on a dose, and you kind of titrate up. Um, the first dose is considered mainly non-therapeutic, so you’re not gonna see much change in your blood sugar management from the first dose usually. If someone’s on the second dose of the medication, they’re doing wonderfully, there’s really no reason for them to continue to move up.

[00:37:13] Kristie: Um, they could just stay right there, and that’s what I see a lot of my clients do. Now, if their blood sugars after a month or after two months is still not budging, then I would recommend that they continue to move up until their numbers come into target.

[00:37:25] Stephanie: And that’s what people i- in the field call a medical approach type 2 diabetes to, to GLP-1, which is based on the blood sugar result versus aiming purely for intentional weight loss at hyper-dosing.

[00:37:39] Kristie: Yes. Yep, absolutely

[00:37:41] Stephanie: And, and correct me if I’m wrong, GLP-1, we’ve been in the field for 10 years, was always used in type 2 diabetes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It’s just recently been mega dosed for intentional weight loss.

[00:37:53] Kristie: Yes. Yeah. Uh, GLP-1s have been around for a very long time. Rybelsus is one of those medications.

[00:37:58] Kristie: Um, it’s an oral GLP-1, but it’s been around for a very long time. Very effective medication for type 2 diabetes. Yeah, some people act like these are brand new and that they’ve just come to light, but they’ve actually been around for a very, again, a very well-studied medication, and can support blood sugar management very well when used appropriately, and also with other things in mind, such as making sure you’re drinking enough water, eating enough protein.

[00:38:21] Kristie: I always recommend working with a dietician if you’re on a GLP-1, just to make sure other things are in line as well.

[00:38:27] Stephanie: Yeah, because there is a risk. We just, I just did an interview on nutritional deficiencies associated with GLP-1, which is a risk- Mm-hmm … but it’s part of the risk-benefit when you have a diagnosed condition.

[00:38:39] Stephanie: Absolutely. You always make a decision based on risk-benefit. It’s not just for the fun of losing weight. It’s because you have a c- condition to manage, and there’s risks, but we can manage them. Absolutely. And that’s what working with you does.

[00:38:50] Kristie: Absolutely. Yeah. I always recommend if you’re on any diabetes medication to at least s- see a dietician for a short period of time so you can manage the side effects that might come along with it.

[00:39:00] Stephanie: Okay. And so let’s, let’s take a case then. Somebody, someone who takes GLP-1 for type 2 diabetes, they end up losing weight. It doesn’t reverse their type 2 diabetes. They’re gonna be on GLP-1 for the rest of their life. Is that the right assumption?

[00:39:14] Kristie: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Any medication that’s given to us is meant to be a long-term medication, you know?

[00:39:19] Kristie: And if we get to a goal with the medication, of course, if we remove the medication, the chances of going back to where we were are pretty high. Um, so these are meant to be lifelong medications.

[00:39:29] Stephanie: Just like metformin. Everybody’s very aware of metformin. Mm-hmm. When you start taking metformin for type 2, it’s a lifelong medication.

[00:39:37] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And we have to think of GLP-1 in the same way. It’s not something you’ll stop once you lost the weight. Because it’s gonna magically reverse type 2 diabetes, it’s just lifelong.

[00:39:46] Kristie: Yep, absolutely.

[00:39:47] Stephanie: And I’m Canadian, so it’s covered for us on type 2 for, by the government. But is it covered, GLP-1 for type 2 by insurance in the States?

[00:39:57] Kristie: Um, a lot of insurances will cover it, but there is a lot of stipulations. Sometimes your A1C has to be above a certain number. Sometimes, you know, you need to also be on an oral, like they want you on metformin. And there’s… It’s very, very weird, and it’s very dependent. I’ve had clients who have had no problem getting it, pay 25 bucks out of pocket, call it a day.

[00:40:16] Kristie: I’ve had other clients really struggle to get it, even though they have a type 2 diabetes diagnosis, and probably would really benefit from being on one.

[00:40:23] Stephanie: Hmm, that’s unfortunate. Okay, we went through my list of myths. Did I miss one from your perspective? What are the myths you bust all the time that I may not have asked you about?

[00:40:34] Kristie: One that I talk about often, and it’s, but it’s a little bit more niched, would be people will say things like artificial sweeteners increase your blood sugar, they cause weight gain, they cause your body to think that you’re eating sugar, so it releases insulin, and all of that is untrue. Artificial, you know, drinking something like a Diet Coke is always better for your blood sugars than a regular Coke.

[00:40:57] Kristie: Um, and you would have to drink an excess of artificial sweeteners to impact your gut microbiome. Um, so yeah, I think that that would be another myth, is that swapping some of your drinks and things for an artificial one is going to be better for your blood sugars than drinking that amount of sugar.

[00:41:16] Stephanie: Okay. And if you, let me ask you this. I, I know you have an entire program for that, so I’m not asking you to, like, go into details of it. But what would

[00:41:24] Kristie: be

[00:41:26] Stephanie: a nutrition advice you would have for people when it comes to pre-diabetes, may not have seen a dietician yet, and they wanna start thinking about nutrition differently?

[00:41:39] Kristie: If they have access to see a dietician, I would highly recommend it because all of our preferences are so different, what we like, what we don’t like, what works for us, what doesn’t work. Um, but two, two quick nutrition areas would be to really hone in on your protein and really to hone in on your fiber.

[00:41:58] Kristie: Mainly fiber. If I could tell everyone one nutrition piece of advice, it would be to eat more fiber. It will affect your life in the most positive way. It will help your blood sugars, it will help your cholesterol, it will help liter- literally any- Bowel

[00:42:13] Stephanie: movement …

[00:42:13] Kristie: yeah, your bow- I mean, and we all know fiber is like to help us more reg- be more regular.

[00:42:18] Kristie: It can improve our gut microbiome. It can improve every area of our health if we just all ate more fiber.

[00:42:24] Stephanie: Fiber maxing.

[00:42:25] Kristie: Yeah. Yeah. There’s always a new, uh, thing on social media- Yeah … about it, yeah.

[00:42:31] Stephanie: But increasing fiber just means eating more, like make it really simple, eat more fruits and vegetables.

[00:42:37] Kristie: Fruits, vegetables, beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, um- Avocado … other things like that. Yep, absolutely. Okay.

[00:42:43] Stephanie: So that’s one. What’s the other one?

[00:42:46] Kristie: Nutrition? So we

[00:42:46] Stephanie: have two tips. Yeah.

[00:42:49] Kristie: Oh. Oh, and increasing your protein would be another one. Most of us by default probably eat enough protein, you know, especially if you’re eating protein at each meal, but just kind of looking and making sure that we are adding protein to our meals and our snacks.

[00:43:01] Stephanie: Which is the whole, maybe that’s gonna be a myth, but one of the base intervention I always heard was combining, right? Yeah. Combining, that was the baseline nutrition advice for type 2 is combining, right? Yeah. Protein, fats, and m- and carbs at every meal, and that- Mm-hmm … helps balance blood sugar, if that’s a thing.

[00:43:20] Kristie: Yeah, it helps, it helps your blood sugars just be a little bit more stable and allows you to feel satiety also. It’s not just, do I, I want my blood sugars in target, it’s also like, am I satisfied from this meal? Do I feel, you know, if you just eat a big plate of spaghetti at dinner, you might feel pretty hungry two hours later, and it’s not because of the carbs, it’s because you had no protein, you had no fiber in that meal.

[00:43:41] Kristie: So when we are combining our foods and pairing our foods, we’re also setting ourself up for success to feel satisfied by actually what we’re eating.

[00:43:48] Stephanie: And that’s the example you gave at the beginning of the podcast about Oreo. You can have the Oreo, but when you combine it with yogurt, then you’re adding more fats-

[00:43:58] Kristie: Yeah.

[00:43:58] Kristie: Yep …

[00:43:58] Stephanie: in, and that helps the body process the sugar. Is that correct?

[00:44:03] Kristie: Yeah, and be more satisfied. You know, I don’t know about anyone here, but I’m not satisfied after two Oreos if I eat them- No … by themselves. It’s easy to eat six, eight Oreos, and it’s because there’s no protein or fiber in the Oreo. So when you add what you need to make that a more satiating dessert or snack or whatever it is, um, that’s gonna help your blood sugars and then also just help your overall satiety from what you’re eating.

[00:44:25] Stephanie: Okay. So clearly you’re the expert in type 2 diabetes, and the reason why I love, when I found her, I found y- her through Bree, a common friend of ours.

[00:44:35] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:36] Stephanie: She’s the only one I’ve heard who’s not telling people to cut carbs, so I gotta bring her into my podcast.

[00:44:41] Kristie: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:42] Stephanie: So if you h- if somebody’s listening and is like, “Oh my God, that’s a completely different way of type 2 diabetes, I wanna know more,” how can they work with you?

[00:44:50] Kristie: I mainly am on social media. I do have a website, but they can find me on type2diabetes.nutritionist. I’m also on TikTok, which is new for me. I don’t know if I love TikTok yet, but I am on TikTok. Um, and I can also be emailed at [email protected]. I have tons of… I mean, I do have a signature group coaching program, but I also have a lot of resources because not everybody needs that.

[00:45:13] Kristie: Um, I have a ton of resources to meet people where they’re at, so they just feel less shame and guilt and anxiety, and also understand that diabetes is going to be a part of your life forever, and it’s best to figure out ways to manage it and not make it your full-time job. And so I have a ton of resources for, to meet everybody where they’re at.

[00:45:31] Stephanie: And your program may not need for everyone, but it literally takes people on how to understand type 2 and- Yeah … what lifestyle they need to make with some kind of personalized, customized approach to it if they need to as well.

[00:45:45] Kristie: Yeah, absolutely. My group coaching program, I also have a body image therapist, which is Brie, come in and do a guest talk.

[00:45:51] Kristie: I also have a guest speaker from a psychologist who’s a good friend of mine who also has type 2 diabetes herself. She’s insulin dependent, type 2 diabetic, and she comes in and talks about building self-care plans, managing burnout, managing anxiety, all of the things that come mentally with a diabetes diagnosis, ’cause it is not just food.

[00:46:10] Kristie: There are so many aspects of your blood sugar management that have to be tackled.

[00:46:14] Stephanie: Okay. We’ll put the links in the show notes. It was a pleasure talking to you.

[00:46:18] Kristie: Thank you.

[00:46:19] Stephanie: And, uh, highly recommend that people go to you. Uh, I think you’re an incredible resource, and I’ve learned a lot myself in following you on social, on Instagram.

[00:46:28] Stephanie: I’m not TikToking, so. But Instagram, you’re amazing.

[00:46:31] Kristie: Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

[00:46:35] Stephanie: If you’re loving what you’re learning on the podcast, you have to come and check out Confident, my program on body acceptance and the confidence that grows from it. Come to our website to stephaniedodier.com/confident. This way you can take the concept that I teaching you on the podcast further into actual application in your life so you can feel confident, stop worrying about your weight, other people’s opinion, and care for your wellbeing without weight loss.

[00:47:10] Stephanie: Come and join me and other women learning how to reshape your confidence, not your body. I’ll see you there